Collectors Who Create
Pop Hey, everyone. Pop punk. This week, I was like, I really should get some music at the beginning to play. I found some really cool eighties, very vibey kinda Miami Vice music, and I'm like, that'd be perfect to play as we get out there. But then I'm like, how am I gonna play it? Is the range too much? Because a lot of times, people play some really cool music on spaces, and the range is so great that it just sounds poppy and staticky. So with my level of inertia, we will probably never have music to start. But the idea of it, it is very appealing to me for sure. So I'm getting a few bookmarks up. Just note... And I chose your pen. HyperSpec, I chose your pen. Feel free to pin anything else that you'd like to to the top.
You know, you put as much as you want up there. I know it's difficult to speak and do that, but we usually do intros before you get to our guests. So there is time if you want to. I don't think fair is here yet. But, Cleat, there's two of us. How are you doing?
Speaker 6 Hey, Pop. Thanks. I actually... I was thinking of considering that, you know, like, offering the music thing before. Like, I don't know, four weeks, it's in my head. And I think I've been warned about people can get banned or, like, can get some kind of restriction from Twitter because they played some music. People have been telling me this so long that I... I'm always, you know, chewing that idea for my mind. So, apparently, that's not true because everybody's doing that. So I think I think we should deal with because I don't like awkward silences. So hi, guys. Happy to see you. I respect, Ben. Welcome.
Speaker 1 Hey. How are you getting on? Glad to make... I'm still half on a work call, so did somebody talk to people before me? I hope we'll be done in a couple of minutes.
Pop Okay. That's cool. Hey. I have respect. Hey, Ben. Good morning. Good morning. How are you doing?
Ben Good. 09:00 in the morning out here on the West Coast. Beautiful outside. A little too warm to be outside, but I can look out the window.
Pop I feel like... Because you do a lot of photography, we'll get into it. But I feel like I have, like, a feel for where you're at because you put, you know, so much cool photography often, you know, from very high angles and things of that nature. So I... Sometimes I feel like the warmth coming through, although now it may be just pure heat. So, that's pretty cool.
Ben I always tell people just imagine like the Truman Show. Like, you come outside and it's blue skies every day. You know? I mean, you know, maybe except for fifty, sixty days a year or something, there's a little bit of clouds. But it's almost like the Truman Show or Groundhog Day. Like, once you've seen it, that's probably how it's gonna be most days out here. So it is beautiful, though.
Pop Absolutely love that. So very excited today to have HyperSpec and Ben Meadows on today. Both of them create amazing art. They also have a long history of collecting. I was looking at both their art. And, I mean, I look at it all the time for, like, you know, a good year, especially with hyperspectus. We were back a ways. But I was looking at all the art created today and some of the collections, and it's it's truly amazing. So excited to talk to you all a bit about your journey as artists in the crypto space in general, talk about what you're doing, what you're seeing, and then also talk to you a bit about collecting as well. Because I think it's always interesting to see what collectors think, especially in the space we're in now. There's not a lot of active collectors and you both are active.
So I think that's always interesting as well. This space is hosted by Clete and I along with Thayer normally. She's, I'll ping her in a bit, but she's in the middle of doing an ArtPatch thing with, Tech Bubble. And so I imagine she's very busy. But if she joins, I'll absolutely add Fair in as well. I know Fair and HyperSpec go back quite a ways as well. But we're gonna get to intros from our speakers. But first, Khalid, I know you and I have talked a bit, but I just wanna see if there's anything you had off the top.
Speaker 6 Not much, but, I would like to say GM and GM to everyone. I think it's amazing to have you here once again. And, today, we have Ben Meadows and Halper Speck. I think both have amazing creations and collections, like, which are quite substantial. I mean, I was set out to do some digging prepare some spaces notes and questions, and it was after about four to five minutes that I did... Had to remind myself that I should start sometime now and stop scrolling to explore all the art in their portfolios. And thanks for sharing your collected links in your links... Link trees and etcetera, by the way. I absolutely enjoyed it. And if anyone wants to check them out as I did, you know where to look. So let's get started.
Pop Awesome. I'm gonna start with Ben. HyperSpec, if you could just start emoting when you are available.
Speaker 1 I've now canceled. I've finished. So I I said, okay. Go with Ben. I'm I'm good when you are.
Pop Okay. Cool. So you both are very busy, Ben. I know, literally, you're skipping a meeting to be here, so it's very much appreciated. I love the photography that you do, but I know you've done quite a few different things in this space. More recently, quite a bit of photography, some amazing, like, lines and angles and colors and composition, which I quite enjoy. And I get to see those quite a bit. We're in a few chats together, so I could see that and then, of course, on Twitter. I know you have quite the history in crypto as well as art. I wondered if you could give us just kind of a bit of background about how you got into the space, maybe a little bit about your, or as much as you want about your art history, as well. I would love to hear just kind of a bit of background.
Ben Yeah. For sure. So I would say there's almost a couple separate lines for me, you know, between art, maybe three. Art, business, and technology. The short version of the story is I grew up around technology. I was lucky to have a a grandfather who had worked in computers since, like, the fifties, sixties, card machines, mainframes, selling IBM computers in Africa and Europe. So I grew up, and I had access to computers when I was, you know, four, five, six years old in the eighties, which was a rare thing back then. I had access to, you know, Windows, IBM machines, and Macs. And, so grew up with sort of a native, familiarity with technology. And in some ways, you had to be more familiar with technology in a very practical way back then. You know, there weren't classes on it. They weren't... You figured it out.
You you broke things, and you figured out how to make things work. So I kinda had this innate sort of practical hacker ish love of technology my entire life. And so it wasn't that strange, but I love blockchain technology when it came out. And I remember, you know, playing around with Bitcoin and Litecoin and long before Ethereum was a thing. So I always kinda had a love of that from a protocol and a technology standpoint, and that's kinda where it stayed for a number of years. Conversely, I never went into business and technology because it was something fun I did. That wasn't how you made a living. That was just something I did for fun. So I went into business and worked my way up through the ranks in sales and management and owned companies, was an executive for a number of years, and kinda did that for...
Till about two years ago when I decided that I'd had enough of being an executive, at least for now, and decided to go back into sales, make my own hours, and then got sucked back into a lot more business things. I sit on the board of a company and the board of a charity, and I advise a couple of projects in the web three space, so sort of technology and business dovetailed there. Then there's the art side of things, and I promise I'll tie them all together in just a second. But I grew up around art in the sense that my family did a really great job of art education for me and my siblings, grew up playing instruments, going to museums, learning art history, taking art classes, you know, doing photography from an early age and music.
And so I had this great art background, and even sold some photos over the years. But, you know, that wasn't a primary focus. Same thing. That was something I did for fun, and it was a hobby. Come back to about two, three years ago, I decide I want more time for myself. I wanna quit working as an executive sixty, seventy, eighty hours a week traveling all over the place. And it really gave me the time to dive into practical applications of blockchain technology, have fun with art and make it, originally using AI and photography and abstract tools. And then from a business standpoint, like I said, to advise some projects and and help some people out from a very practical standpoint. And the three just sort of dovetailed together in the last couple of years, to making art, collecting art, in the Web three space.
And that's kinda the short version of how I got to where we're at today.
Pop I love that, Ben. And that's... I would say that's... You know, it's fairly unique, and, you know, we've done a lot of spaces. I think we're, like, 40 now, but I think that background is somewhat unique. And I think it's pretty cool to hear and how they all come together. So I absolutely love that. We're gonna get to questions in detail about your art, but I'm gonna get a quick in... Not a quick... An introduction from Hyperspect. And I see... And I see that Sarah has joined. Sarah, how are you?
Sarah Sorry about the delay. I got, of course, stuck with troubleshooting, and I couldn't find the spaces. I didn't get the notification, but I'm here.
Pop Bookmark. Fair... Bookmark all my tweets, please. No. I'm kidding. Hi, Prashvang. It's awesome to have you here. I will say that, I think that I first, you know, came across you. It's a horrible way to say it, but probably in crypto punk chat in Discord because I'm not a big Telegram person. So I think when I started to get into crypto punks, think I saw, you know, you made occasional appearances there and then, of course, on Twitter. And when I first met you on Twitter, I looked at your... Two things. I looked at your galleries, which, honestly, I was blown away. Your galleries are so packed with amazing art, photography, glitch art, and everything else. It was just... It was... I had never seen anybody that had galleries like you did, like, in terms of the quality of art and the density.
And, of course, I saw a lot of your punk and friends work, which I absolutely love and collected as well. And then, of course, we were able to meet up in New York City. But you have a long history in crypto and as well as creating some amazing art, so I'd love to hear from you a bit about your background.
Speaker 1 Okay. Well, I go back then. Since Ben went... He rewound back. So as you can tell, I'm I'm from Scotland. I live in The US, but I'm from Scotland originally. I'm similar, very tech orientated. You know, I got degree, PhD in physics when I was in Scotland. And then, you know, corporate life for the last twenty years or more. So I currently... You know, Ben said he's an ex exec. I'm current exec. So I kinda try to balance real life, you know, technology. Yeah. It's like a... I'm a technology vice president. And then balance that with my love of art and crypto and everything else. So, really, I love two lives, parallel lives, but both fun in their own way. As far as crypto, I think my first was 2017. I got a little bit of Bitcoin East and then not too much after.
I always studied and kept up with it, but then as the COVID crash came, I took that opportunity to rebalance some of my finances and it's worked out very well. But I do love this tech. No. It's not really all about the money. I played in DeFi summer, ultimate DJN plays. And then around Christmas of twenty twenty, I decided... I was looking at a lot of beetles and art and I just couldn't understand it. And then I decided at the end of the year, was gonna try lean towards NFTs. So I got my first ever NFT with my punk in January 21. And then after that, it's just straight down the rabbit hole, really. I had never never looked back. Think veg pop pop about my galleries. Like, really? That's what I done for well over a year.
You know, I've been down in my galleries for almost two and a half years. So they're, I don't know, Kryptovox or megastructures. You could give a tour. It takes two, three hours to tour around, but does capture all the art. And a lot of collaborations we've had over time, you know, like, for example, we made a a metaverse department store between 40 people from all over, you know, seven from Korea, you know, about five, six, South America, some US and Europe. So we've done crazy shit, you know, even before a lot of the art stuff started to really kinda play play through more. And then as far as art, you know, I don't know. I collect all types. As you mentioned, pop, you know, photography and big fan, glitch art, AI art. You know, I really like collage. So I'd say that's my main collecting themes.
But for making, I just... Anyway, like, as I say, I like to... I like the idea of being able to capture the tech, capture the web three experience. But also, you know, it's a good way to share your... You know, like, express yourself at the same time. You know. So so I'll I'll I'll try to do with a smile, you know. I try try to keep things lighthearted where possible. I know it's a tough space at times, but, you know, you just have to have a positive outlook and, you know, you work your way through it in time. So any questions?
Pop Alright. I love that. That was awesome. I'm gonna kick it over to Crete Crete to start with questions. I could talk all day. We have some shared history, d five summer. I don't have as much the technology background, but, you know, it is not surprising that a lot of the collectors in the space do have a history in crypto. I think we see that trend. Certainly, there are some outside of it, which I absolutely love, but it is a trend that exists. But, I have questions about art, to start with. Akhilid, I'd like to take over you to start if you have anything immediately.
Speaker 6 I have plenty of questions, but I know her has to go at, like, I don't know, forty five minutes forty minutes. So I think first should have the mic. I think that's incredible that you're here because in, like, in in, four to five minutes, you have another space. So please go ahead. You're on clock here.
Sarah Oh, that's very sweet, Clay. And, yes, for those who are not aware, I'm in the middle of a thirteen week, with a weekly lounge. It's really busy. And our spaces is usually... You know, it's at one. So I cohost with Paul and Clint in the morning, but two days later. So everything's a little bit messy today. I would say, like, I actually had the pleasure to talk to Hyper for a long time, just the two of us when we were at NFT NYC. So I got to hear a lot about his experience on creating and his galleries. And by the way...
Speaker 1 But, Sarah, how much can you remember?
Sarah Well, there was a lot of beer involved, so I did I did forget a lot of it. But I will say you still owe me a visit, a walk through your galleries because
Sarah create galleries in different in different places. And I know that you use that other one that I'm still very much interested in learning more about. But what I would like to know today... And sorry, Ben, but I don't know much about you to actually ask many questions, but... So I'll start with Hyper. And I would like to know, like, from, you know, your art perspective because, of course, not everyone knows you as a collector. And I see the arts that you create. It goes from collage to, you know, like, AI and all of this. And I wanted to see, like, from the artists inside you, you know, what drives you? What is the... Your favorite medium? And how do you feel about exploring the other ones? Because you you use a lot of them. So I'd like to hear about that.
Speaker 1 I think for me, again, my collection just kind of evolved over time. You know, I done the larger one when it was coming out of Thailand, which is more AI. But I think it was a more kind of complete collection. At the moment, I'm kind of... I kept playing with the different tools but I've been kind of working on a larger kind of view, you know, trying to kind of do a more futuristic kind of world and trying to write down what it could look like, you know, but it'll take a lot more, you know, take months to do. But in a way, it feels like as you build over time, you know, you wanna try and expand in both your... I don't know. Like, it's your capability, your consistency, but also be able to express, you know, what you're what you're feeling about, you know, the world and the space.
And in this case, for me, it's almost imagining the future, you know, and you wanna be able to try and capture it as best you can. But it just takes a huge amount of effort to, you know, create the space such that you can't, you know, you can get a more cohesive larger collection. So I don't know. I just feel like, you know, as an artist, I'm kind of evolving trying things. Again, I'm okay in experimenting short term, but trying to do something about more longer term that I can kinda get my head Enter, if you know what I mean. That makes sense?
Sarah Yes. Yes. It does make sense. And I would say, like, consistency as an artist is so hard, and I know that. And that's something, you it's a it's a subject that we talk a lot on spaces because I see a lot of artists that struggle with that. If you're thinking, you know, it's market, it is good to have a very consistent body of work because people recognize you from that style. But in a creative perspective and that's one of the reasons why, like, I actually took a step back as a creator. You know, I still create and I still sell and all of that. I'll never stop doing that. But I think, you know, like, I I love the idea of exploring things. So I feel it's, you it's know, a little confusing for some collectors to see that, you know, one day we're exploring, let's say, like, you you were using AI, and then the other day you're doing collage and all of this.
But I do see the consistency in your work, and I think a lot of people have a hard hard time seeing consistency in artists that are creative like, you know, like you are. I think again to
Speaker 1 me sorry, Farrah. I agree. Like, again, you may use different techniques but usually a common theme comes out. I noticed that. Like even though collections may be quite different, they are and they aren't. You know, they're still your kind of personality, I think, comes across all your collections. So, you know, it's interesting.
Sarah Thanks, mate. And I'll say, like, I could hear you talk all day. I love your accent. And but I think, you know, like, I could test the same question to Ben because I'm I'm not sure. Like, I'm not really familiar with your work, but I love learning from collectors, you know, how they go on the creative, you know, approach of their work. So if you could elaborate a little bit, that would be nice.
Ben Absolutely. And I was gonna say something anyway about this idea between consistency and sort of creativity. Pop has heard me say this before, but I think something that we forget sometimes is and I agree with Hyper. There should be a there should be a consistent voice. Right? A creative vision that that, you know, goes through. And and, like, in my my pieces, I'm generally trying to say something. Right? But but I'm trying to for me, it's the idea of of expressing a feeling generally, whether it's a feeling about the world or a scene or a you know, I'm trying to get my thoughts and my feelings out there into the world, and I have my own voice. But the medium might change. Right? The tools might change. You know?
Photography today with computational tools and more megapixels and higher dynamic range is different than it was I was shooting on a film camera as a kid or, you know, with a early iPhone. And so by nature, the medium and the tools are gonna change over time. AI is gonna change over time. And I think something that it bears in mind for us to remember, because we're in a new space in the sense that Web three and art is relatively new, is that if you look at famous artists, you know, over the years, they they weren't as consistent as we think they are in hindsight sometimes. We go see a curated collection at a museum or at a gallery, and so by nature, we see either those works of theirs that are in the style that was most popularized or that the museum or gallery wants us to see.
We very rarely see an entire retrospective of an artist's body of work and see their evolution and their development. And even some of the roads they went down that they stopped and turned around and and, you know, finally found their main direction. I think one of the dangers that we fall into into the space because of the early and quick success some artists have had, because of the nature of Web three and globalization and you know, is that there's a temptation to get stuck in a particular style because that style works and that style sells. And I think we have to learn to separate, you know, creative vision and voice from specific style or even medium. So for instance, at the end of the day, I'm probably not gonna become an oil painter. Right? That's just outside of my, you know, field of knowledge and abilities.
But I like to use photography. I love to use technology, you know, whether that's generative AI, glitch tools, older GAN tools, making abstract works, you know, algorithmically or through a combination of you know, at the end of the day, there is a consistency to that experimentation. So that that would be my 2¢ on that.
Sarah I love it. And you're right on point. I agree with you. And that's something that I think a lot of people forget is to look at, you know, art history and see how the best artists in history have gone in so many directions before they found something that they got famous
Sarah And even people that got famous, you know, they didn't stop creating other things on the side because they still wanted to be creative. And, of course, there isn't specific line of work that is what everyone knows. But, you know, if you look at Picasso, I always go to him as an example because he's one of those that, you know, he was doing neoclassicism, and then he has, you know, the blue period, the pink period. And then he started experimenting with cubism, but he did so many different things at the same time. And, of course, you know, people know cubism because he was a huge movement, but he was much more than that. In any way, I do think it's great that people keep their minds open. And, of course, if you're looking for sales and you're known for something specific, you have to it's kind of like it's a product line.
You know? You have something that style that you keep creating because, you know, your collectors will come back to it. But I always tell artists never stop being creative because that will kill the artist inside you. So I really like your perspective, and thanks for sharing.
Speaker 6 That was great. Thanks, Farin. Thanks, Ben. I really enjoyed listening to answer those of these questions. And I have one quite close to this subject, so I really appreciate a creator collecting and a collector creating. I think these two aspects of art really goes hand in hand, and they develop and inspired by one another end. So I want to ask, how does your collecting affects your creations, and your creations affect your building of your collection? So it it's it's a question for you both. And, Hyper, would you like to go first?
Speaker 1 Yeah. I I am it's actually interesting because it was scribbling down just yesterday, you know, some of the different collection styles I have. And then it was looking at how do they actually apply to what I make. And it was very interesting because, you know, I like a lot of black and white photography. I like animations, glitch, etcetera. And like one of my recent pieces, it just feels like an amalgamation of, you know, four different styles that I collect. So they definitely resonate back and forward. You know, and you find that as well like, you know, I would say, you know, in recent months, you know, I probably collect more from people I can vibe with and chat with and not as much, you know, just on seeing something randomly. But you start to build a kinda, you know, more relationships with people.
And and I think a lot of collectors do that as well. You know, as you get to know people, get to enjoy the style. You get to understand, you know, the vibe, what they're doing and, you know, you can just you know, you you gradually you know, you're building that relationship at the same time as you're making art. And clearly, those relationships are influencing what you're gonna do and how you do it. So I think they're very, very linked, I would say.
Speaker 6 I I really love that. And it remind me of a quote of Salvador Dali. And if I'm not wrong, it was something like, those who do not want to imitate anything produce nothing kind of quote. And and I think really it's really, really applies to our current situation. And I do think collecting makes you more productive and creative, not spy because not because you're copycatting or something. You can get inspiration, like, super easily.
Speaker 1 Yeah. And it is well, it helps because you start building up curation skills. So as you, you know you think about the amount of art that's out there compared to what you can buy is a very small fraction. So you really have to like train your eyes. Like some I I type when I started my glitch collection, I spent a whole weekend and I looked at 6,000 or more different gift glitch GIFs. I thought it was gonna go insane. But by the end of it, you know, I'd really immersed. I'd almost yeah. I, you know, trained my eyes to what was good, what I liked. You know? And then actually, after started to make more. You know, same for collage. It was collage week and I went on Tezos bought for 100 plus pieces.
But really as I bought and, you know, you you know, at the end of it, could tell give, you know you know, the better work from from the the rest. But that inspired me, you know, a few weeks later to go start making stuff. So they all kinda links as a journey in a way.
Speaker 6 Thanks so much, Yeah. So I think Now please go Oh, sorry. No. No. But I Alfred didn't mute the so I just waited because, maybe they haven't moved to see. No worries. Then please go ahead. Thank you so much, Alfred.
Ben So I was gonna say, I think, first of all, one of the reasons why an artist collects for me is there's a social responsibility aspect there. Right? It's sort of a eating your own dog food. People are paying me for my creative vision and my output. You know, how hypocritical would it be not to share some of that and and, you know, want to buy other people's art? So right off the bat, there is sort of this community social responsibility aspect that it would be very suspect for an artist to only, you know, create art, consume money, and never appreciate and buy art for themselves. So that's sort of point number one. Point number two is there's a chicken and egg aspect there. Right? I learned about art, and that's why I created art, you know, when I was young.
Then I created art, and I and I wanted to buy other art, you know, by people that created different things than me. So I think there's always this, interaction between creating and and appreciating and purchasing art. Now as for how does other art inform my art, I think that's interesting. I think I think there is the appreciating, viewing, and collecting, aspect that we were just talking about. Obviously, context and seeing new things and seeing what other people does informs us. Then there's also the curatorial aspect. And as Pop knows, I I run or I created the ABC Art World on foundation and kinda found myself in a, curatorial position that I am, you know, by nature. I I I was on a call yesterday with TheHug and Christie's, and somebody asked Christie's. They said, aren't you a gatekeeper, though?
And Christie's kinda said, well, you know, I don't know that I like that term, but by nature, we're a gatekeeper. That's what we do. Otherwise, we'd be eBay. You know? And so that's taught me a lot about what do you allow? Why do you allow it? What's the vision for this particular curatorial body or group? So that's also something that's been interesting. And then I would say the other really interesting thing for me, and Hyper talked about it some, is some of the chats that I'm in with other artists, outside of collecting. You know? I'm in a I'm in a very close knit chat with a couple of generative artists, and and we dig really deep into, you know, the code base and how the art's made and why and decisions they make. And I've dabbled in generative art. I've made some pieces, but I've never released any.
And yet I learned so much from them and the choices they're making, about design and palettes and marketing, that I find some of those talks with other artists even way outside of my genre have been incredibly rewarding. So I think it's a a big interconnected, group of things. It's not just collecting and creating. It's collecting and creating and community and curating, that all goes together into making my art, releasing my art. So that's what I've got to say about that.
Speaker 6 You know, I that that was so much good input that I know I asked the question, but now I feel a little bad because I can collect as much as I used to, and I want to. So thank you guys, like, in a in a real way and a sarcastic way. You know? So you made me feel a bit of bad. Bob, back to you. Thanks so much.
Pop This is awesome. I feel like any questions I have are not gonna it's such good responses. But, honestly, I Perspect and Ben are so you know, have such deep knowledge on this and some really good experience that I really appreciate getting, you know, their inputs on things. Ben, I have I'm gonna ask you first and I'll get to hyperspect, but I have sort of mangled I I book link I bookmarked your link in response to this spaces, but then I bookmarked your actual the thing where you're working on index side of all your Medit art pieces. I wondered if you could talk maybe a bit about kind of your meant to you know, some of your recent art, some of this photography work, and how you know, you talked a little bit about you, you know, the core.
You have, a purpose or a goal or something in mind and how those kind of fit into it. And then if you wanted to talk a bit about how you're indexing these, I would love that as well.
Ben Yeah. Absolutely. So one of the things that's been hard for me and that I've had to think through is, you know, why am I making the art I make, and what's it based on? You know? And I think something that I figured out at the end of the day is most of my art does start from photography. That that's what I was good at when I was younger. That's the tool I used, and that's where I had some early success. And so if you look at my on chain pieces, most of those started as a as a photograph that, you know, then I drew over or changed or but they started out as a photograph. And then, obviously, my photographs started out as a photograph. But a lot of my abstract works started out as photographs, and even much of my AI work that I've done started out with a photographic reference at some point.
And one of the discussions I've had with my wife is, you know, one of the I think one of the interesting things about my photography or different things is I've gotten rid of my professional photography cameras, and and I shoot on my iPhone. And I generally don't take a lot of takes. I generally take a single shot. Some of my best pieces have been I'm standing on a roof or I'm looking out at a beautiful scene, and and innately, something says, snap a photo of that. And I pull up the camera, I snap a photo, and that's it. One, maybe two exposures are all I have. And then I go back and look at it, and I go, wow. This captured a feeling or this looks a certain way, you know, that I felt at that time.
And, you know, you edit and you crop a little bit, and then I release it out there. And this was the discussion my wife and I were having when she said, you have an eye for the composition. You know? You see something in that split second, and you snap the photo. And, you know, sometimes you don't even realize it consciously. So the other day, I posted a photo with a plane and some pink clouds at a sunset, and I didn't even realize it at the time. I just saw the scene, and I said, wow. That speaks to me. That's an amazing scene. Snapped a single photo and then went back and looked at it. It was really cool. So for me, I generally start with photography. I start with composition, layout, colors, and then the rest kind of comes, you know, from my inner feelings and inner world, after the fact as I go back and look at that.
Now to indexing site, to something a little more practical than that. So one of the things that's hard, I think, for any artist is sort of curating their portfolio, and I'm still working on it. You know? It's it's it just takes a lot of time to sit down and take you to the collections, and and Hyper's been better at it than I have. But, you know, it it takes discipline. It takes time to just sit there and enter in. This is what this collection is. This is the pieces that are in it. This is the meaning behind it, or this is some context to it. And it's very disjointed to do that. So with this index site I I used to work in technology too. I was I was similarly a, VP that was responsible for technology, had software engineers working for me and data scientists.
And so, you know, what does everybody in technology and business love? Spreadsheets. Right? So I said, let me just start with a listing of every piece I've ever meant it, and let me put it on a spreadsheet. And so I just started putting everything on a spreadsheet. So a few pieces left, but I've got most of it on there. And then I found one of these sites that will take a spreadsheet, use it as an API, and then format it and put it on a website. So that's what that is, and it makes it really easy. When I meant a new piece, I throw a new row on the spreadsheet, and it automatically updates the site. Then I can go from that database, and I you know, my next project will be start breaking that down into individual pieces, collections, descriptions, more info. Love
Pop that. Appreciate appreciate the answer. I prospect I feel like you do a lot of projects. And I if I haven't mentioned it yet, you do you spent a lot of time this year, I believe, doing blog posts. So not only not only do you have you you know, you spend all that time on galleries, and you spend all this time, you get so deep into art. And then you also have created some really cool blog posts that kind of, in some cases, looked at multiple artists, a lot of times looked at one artist and included a lot of their art. I wondered if you could think a little talk a bit about maybe that and your kind of approach to curation in general. Could you do these extensive projects on it? You know?
Speaker 1 I think on that one, Popeye. So for me, that's where I decided, or I think it was back in May to create a website because the problem with things like Twitter is very transactional. Things get lost within twenty four hours and if you're putting a lot of energy towards creating like a blog or whatever, I think you wanna have it kinda semi permanent. So that's why I thought better just do a a website and then I can, you know, update, you know, when if you like it. But I do I use it for my art. I also use I don't use it for all what I collect but, know, maybe, like for example when the collage weekend was going I thought I'll be cool, you know, do a quick blog, you know, all the people I'm getting from, let's just put it all together.
You know, just kinda semi commemorates that but it's also a cool way just to kinda go deeper on the art because a lot of people look at it but they never really, you know, look at the context, the words that come with it, the person. And when you do something like a blog, you actually go like a layer deeper on what you're collecting. You know? So I thought for that, was, yeah, it's just something cool to try and do it again. You know, you're out collecting, good to promote the space. You know, people have got great work. You know, good to just share it. So Thanks for that. For creation wise, I really kinda on and off. You know, I didn't say at the moment, you know, what I find, if I'm in collection mode, I don't create as much. If I'm in creation mode, I don't collect as much.
So, you know, it's like almost you get your mindset and how you're approaching the art, I feel. Yeah. I don't know. What was your what else was your question, Paul?
Pop I think I covered it. I I I it makes sense. I think a lot of people and and you go deep. Like, I had someone ask me, like, you know, do you have a gallery of all the art you collected? And the answer is no. And I'm like, I could give some, you know, some hollow promise about I'm working on it, I'll get to. But, honestly, like, it's very time very difficult to find the time. So people like you who actually, you know, feature the art you collect in a variety of different ways, I think, is pretty cool. Just know what something I
Speaker 1 do. Early in the year, I decided at the start of the year AI is just starting to break. So I thought I'll go out, you know, start building a, you know, foundation of a collection. And, yeah, I did that. Put it all in crypto voxels. So there's maybe a 100 pieces all in there, all displayed, you know, cool walk around. You know, I guess it's good. It's just again, it it it's the difference between buying individual pieces and try to curate a kinda modern AI gallery. You know, it's kinda different. You know, and even in the gallery, you know, people think AI is broad, but each of the rooms in the gallery features a kinda subculture of AI. You know, it's the same as I look out for photography and glitch. You know, you're not just capturing the the the broad area, but the subculture is within it.
You know? And you'll get that the more you study it, and the deeper you go, the more you'll understand.
Pop I love that. So I have this question. I'll start with Ben just to keep going back and forth. But how do you is collecting and I'm gonna ask because I'm interested as well and, hopefully, other people are too. Is collecting in a bear market, you know, different for you? Do you think about it differently? Do you approach it differently? I mean, you're both very active. As Hyperspect talked about, he kinda collects and then creates, so there's kinda breaks. I'm someone who just collects. I try to collect fairly consistently, and I create at the same time. But, Ben, I was wondering how you either as a collector, and if you wanna talk about as an artist too, like, how do you is is bear marketing different for you? I don't know. I'd love your thoughts.
Ben Yeah. So being in crypto since, gosh, I don't know, 2012 or something, I mean, way, way back when, on one hand, the bear market doesn't scare me from a fiscal standpoint. I'm like, yeah. It's gonna come. It's gonna go. You know? I'm not that worried about it. I would say, so two answers from a collector standpoint, and I was just having this discussion last night. Me and my wife were sitting down and talking about collecting and bear markets, and I think there's two things. Number one, money's more finite. Right? It's a bear market, and it's a macro bear market. Right? I work a web two job, and the market out there is harder than it was, you know, a year or two ago. And so I'm more intentional with my spending during a bear market partly because, a, maybe there's less revenue or, you know, the conditions are just more uncertain.
But also because if I go buy a piece and then I decide that was a stupid purchase, I would like to, you know, put it out on secondary, it's not gonna sell, or or maybe you're not gonna make a profit. So there's just the, honest truth that there's less money to go around in a bear market, and money is not infinite. So as a collector, I think I'm more intentional with what I purchase. I plan to buy and hold it longer. I make less flippant decisions. At the same time, there's more deals to be had. And so if I see an artist that I really believe in and I think it's a great deal, I will jump on that in a bear market because, you know, I think those decisions will age very well. You know? It's the old thing Warren Buffett said about, you know, this is when millionaires are made.
This is when you buy companies. This is when you buy good art at a discount. So that's sort of my collector view. On to put my artist hat on, I think and this was also a discussion I was having just yesterday. I think it is prudent to keep releasing as an artist even though you're not going to get as much monetarily for your works. And this is something that I think every artist has to think about is, oh my gosh. If my works were selling for, you know, one x, now they're discounted, and I can only sell them for half of that or 40% of that. And you go, gosh. Am I devaluing myself as an artist by selling? You know? I had a sale at almost point seven eight a while back. I haven't had anything close to that lately. Do I keep releasing it?
Am I devaluing my work? And the answer for me is yes. It shows consistency. It shows conviction. It shows, you know, creativity, artistic output. I'm gaining collectors. I'm I'm still gaining legitimacy. My art is still being put up in galleries and physical places. And and so I think you keep moving forward, and the market will catch up with that. And that's been sort of my MO when it comes to, as an artist, do you keep releasing? And sometimes it sucks, you know, and you see works go out, and and, you know, maybe it doesn't get the reception that would get in the bull market. But I think that's part of being a successful artist long term is having that resiliency and that consistency to just keep showing up every day and putting your creative output out there in the world.
Pop I love that, Ben. That's so well put. I really appreciate your articulating that well. Hyperspect, any any thoughts on kind of either a collector or artist collecting in a bear market?
Speaker 1 I would say but I think this is is interesting because there's there's a lot less signal as in, you know, hype with money flying around. But the signal in noise is better. You know, you get to actually see people more clearly. You know, there's just less noise around, I feel. And anybody who's hanging around, you know, in this kind of bear, you know that they're, you know again, some, you know, many artists we've seen quite along the way. But, you know, people who can make it through the next, say, year are gonna do very, very well when we get to the other side. And I agree with Ben. I think people should just put out as they feel right because you can't you don't wanna try and time this market. It's way too volatile. You know?
You you'll find that you may have a collection there for three months nobody's looked at and it'll go in a day. You know? Just depends on what's happening in the space and, you know, how people are responding. So I think it's best just, you know, get a few people are creating, be as consistent as they can and let the market do what the market does. But I I would say don't over chase it. You know, just try and I wouldn't say ignore it, but, you know, don't let it drive your actions if possible. I love that.
Pop I'm gonna have a follow-up because I just resting it. Both of you, and I like to include myself in this, collect from a wide range of price points, artists who are established, artists who are I don't artists who are, you know, on top of people's minds, but also people who maybe are less. You know, it's all a spectrum. I'm not saying it's yes or no. I think that's interesting because I find a lot of collectors who are still in it will only collect or tend to collect either, you know, very established because as Ben said, know, it's a little easier to move. So I'm wondering why is your what is your your choice around that? Why do you make the choice to collect from a wide range of artists and not just established
Speaker 1 artists? I think, well, for me, again, I don't look at this as really a purely financial thing. Again, I know a lot of other collectors. Again, they will go with either, you know, art blocks or brain drops or, you know, where collections, where it's kinda, I would say, semi liquid. But again, they're looking at it, you know, potentially as as sellability. I would say the majority of art I have, I don't even
Speaker 1 You know, I just like collecting and I like build the galleries and, you know, maybe in the future, it's something cool for people to look at, you know, just sharing, but I don't really have a great feel of flipping or, you know, maybe maybe some, you know, some of the, like, art blocks I'd be I would maybe move on in time. But most of the stuff I collect because it's it's kinda capturing my journey. You know, it's almost like a a journal. You know, you sell you can tell if you go through the galleries. It's almost like a two, three year journey of my kind of experience through, and I don't don't really feel the need to sell it. If you know what I mean. So it just it just captures your own, I think, your own journey through the space. So
Pop love how you put that as, like, a journal. I think that's
Pop that's an interesting way to look at it. I think it's pretty cool. Ben, any thoughts on that? Like, you definitely collect from a wide range of people, but you talked about, you know it's obvious people that have already I don't know if it's obvious, but people who are established in the moment doesn't mean they'll be established in the future. So it's not like you always have, you know, potential even, you know, liquidity there. And as, you know, hyperspect said, sometimes when you have things like ArtBlocks or things like that, they're slightly more liquid, of course, down like everything else is, but there's more of a focus on it. People, when they come into the space, always hear those brand names. I'd love to hear your thinking on it.
Ben So I think for me, there are three reasons to collect art. First reason is because I like it. Right? It it sparked something in me, and I want to own that particular piece of art. So first is just purely aesthetic. I like the art. And that doesn't matter if somebody's, you know, well known, not well known. So that that's number one. Number two, I would say is financial. Right? I, you know, I think that this is going to appreciate. And, you know, I've I've been known to do that before. I don't love an art piece, but I know that everybody else does, and it's gonna do well. And then the third reason is personal. You know? It's it's a good friend of mine that's releasing something, and I wanna support them. You know? Whether it's my favorite thing or not, it's a friend.
And if spending 20 or $30 will help a friend out, show support, that's part of the community aspect. I would want people to do that for me. So that would be sort of the three reasons that I've collected things over the years and probably to some degree accounts for the wide range. Everything from I just like that one to that was a friend of mine to, hey. I think this is gonna do well. The other thing I will say is this, and this is true as both a collector and an artist. You'll hear a lot of talk about, you know, especially from a financial standpoint, how do I know if this is gonna be successful, not successful? Should this artist have a greater range or a lesser range? Should they focus more on scarcity or more on, getting eyes in front of their art so they should release a lot of things.
And I think it's it's similar to the business world and and, you know, buying investments from the standpoint of time in the market is better than timing the market. And so I would rather have, from a strictly financial standpoint, both or success stand whatever you wanna call it, both as an artist or a collector, I would rather have more pieces from more people over a great range of time than try and guess. Right? If I look at Damien Hirst, he looks very different than Potasso, who looks very different than, you know, somebody that released very few pieces of work, and they all had success. One with, you know, a very wide variety of works, one with a massive output. You know? And then other guys, scarcity has worked for them. I'm not going to, you know, think I'm smarter than everyone else or the market and try and guess that.
So I will collect based on what I like or who I know, before I try and guess what the magic winning formula is. And that's true as an artist too. I don't know, you know, if the market's gonna respond better to me releasing a lot of work, scarcity. And so I think there is some level of being true to yourself and your feeling and your vision when you release just like when you collect.
Pop Love both love both those answers. Love how you break it down, Ben. I love the bullet points, and it makes it easy. I'm not in a bad way, but, literally, when you number them out, my brain's like, oh, I actually kind of remember those, and I don't ever do that. So I'm appreciative of people like yourself who do that. Fair, I know you have to leave any second. I wanted to give you a chance to ask a last question that you might be able to get to hear the end of, if you'd like to. But, appreciate you joining us in a busy schedule.
Sarah No. I'm just going to, to go. I don't have the time for any other questions, especially because I can't hear. Hi, Cor. I got rugged. But, anyway, you know, it's been a pleasure to be here. As always, I love being here on a weekly basis because it's nice to take a break and listen to people talk about art and all of it. So I really appreciate you guys. And we'll be on our packs of spaces in seven minutes. If anyone wants to go there after you wrap up here, that would be lovely to have everyone. So thanks for having me again.
Pop Thank you, Farrah, and best of luck with the space as always. Appreciate you. Appreciate your question. I know you're putting a lot of time in, and definitely take some breaks. We can sprint sometimes, but you got you can't sprint all the time, so take some breaks in there. Appreciate you. Colleen, I'm gonna kick it over to you if you have a question.
Speaker 6 I have. Yes. Thanks, Bob. And I think Fir doesn't know what a break is anymore, so she needs to be forced to take a break. We we need to cover that. So I really love this flow here, and I think you have answered so many questions in people's mind, including me. It's you know, I have, like, suspicions and doubts and questions for, like, I don't know, maybe six months, seven months. Like, constantly, this despair and some kind of hopelessness, not, like, in in the way that I should I should feel like I should leave or something like that. But it is so it is quite well, you know how it is. You know? We we all we all there right now, and it was an amazing silver lining, you know, in my end. Thank you for that. So I really wanna get to to your artist aspects and curation aspects.
You know, Ben, I I I have one question for you, and, it's about the ABC world. You mentioned that briefly. And, I have come across your report referred the ABC world as a passion project once in a tweet, and I love that. And thanks for hosting one of my pieces there as well. I really enjoyed it, and I could see the passion in the air as well because all the pieces created are so good. And could you tell us about a little bit what was the idea behind founding the ABC World, and, how does the onboarding process work, in case anyone wants to get involved there?
Ben Yeah. Absolutely. So, it is a passion project. And in one sense, it's my project, and in another sense, it's a community project. So about two months ago, I was in a group chat with people that it's an Art Bidders chat, a b c. And it's just group of people that, you know, we see, particular pieces of art, and we say, hey. This artist looks really cool. They've got an auction, and and, you know, it's an informative, conversational group, very loosely structured. And I said, we should have a a world. You know? We we kind of look at artists. We know you know, it's kind of a you know it if you see it. You know? I like that artist. I like their passion. I like what they're really saying. And I said, look.
If other people can do it, you know, if Jeremy Booth can do it, if other people can do it with these foundation worlds, I'm sure I can do it. I've been around for a while. I can do this. So if nobody else is gonna do it, I'll do it. So I started it just kinda out of out of passion. And I said, you know, I wanna I want to reinvest, you know, the vast majority, all the proceed back in other art. And so at this point, I think I spent more money than I've made on it. You know? I spent gas fees. I've spent and I haven't taken anything out of it. I've actually set it aside in a little wallet by itself. So it is a passion project in that sense. And I've been shocked by how well it's done.
We're we were one one of the top 10 most active, foundation worlds pretty much all the time. We've had some of the top additions that have released on foundation in the last month or two. And so I started out with artists I knew. Artists that I knew, respected. I knew the quality of their work. And I was kinda shocked by how quickly people said, hey. I'd like to release them there, and I didn't really have a a strong process at first. At this point, if people are interested in joining the world, if they will send a DM to the at a b c art world, Twitter account. You can also find it by going to abcartworld.com. Send a message, and then I actually have a spreadsheet, that I keep with, you know, who is applied.
And then me and it's not just me because I don't trust myself that much and my my views, you know, and my my eye. So I will then go to some people that I respect, some other art, collectors, and say, hey. What do you think about this person? What do you think about their art? Would this fit in this world? And there's no there's no requirement from a success standpoint. It's more of a who are they, how long have they been around, what are they putting out, is it something kind of the litmus test is, is it something I would bid on or that other people that I respect and know would bid on? And if the answer is yes, then the answer is probably gonna be yes, from an ABC Art World listing standpoint. And so I have a backlog right now.
The other thing that I've been very careful with is not sort of flooding the, you know, flooding the listings. I really like there to be one or two listings at a time so that we can put attention to it, and say, hey. This artist is releasing on this day, And I feel like that's a service that I can do to other artists is to highlight just their one drop or two drops, at a time. And so I try to keep things pretty small, pretty curated. I don't want a 100 listings going at once. With the exception of a couple pieces, everything has always sold out almost immediately as soon as it gets dropped on there, and I love that. So for me, it's a passion project. It's something fun I've done, and I'm shocked that we're already at, like, seven or eight Ethan sales in under sixty days.
It's been really, really a fun thing to to see.
Speaker 6 Thanks so much, Ben. I had no idea ABC standard for Artbuilders Chat. That's actually so creative and, you know, makes sense. I thought it was the first three letters of the alphabet, like, directly there. And, it's perfect, and, I think everybody should know about it. And, I wish you all success and including me. I don't know, how I should, you know Keep listing there, but we will be in touch. I promise you that. Pop, back to you.
Pop I love that. I could I could talk to Minh in hyperspec all day because I haven't even got into, like, history of stuff going back because I don't wanna get too crypto heavy. Like, nobody needs that right now, probably. But I do wanna open up if there are people who would like to ask questions. You know, we're gonna keep it specific to questions today. But if you have questions or you have comments on their, you know, comments on their work, I just wanna keep it specific around them. You are welcome to come up and join us as a speaker and ask your questions. Definitely, I'm open to that. I wanted to ask, and maybe this is because I feel like I'm getting older, but I'm starting to think more about on chain. So and Ben talked about this a bit, so I definitely wanna get his take on it.
But and, you know, hyperspect, you've talked a lot about, you know, the galleries being almost like a journal. The blog is more permanent. And, you know, you've been in blockchain a while. How much value and do you think much about the art being on chain? Because we have so much art out there that is just, you know is hosted and very little is on chain. Ollie, who's a favorite collector of mine, also creates pretty cool photography. He's been doing almost all on chain photography. It's expensive. I think he spend ends up spending about half of initial bid price to get it, you know, all on chain. Know, You the quality is gonna be lower, of course, getting it on chain. But I think I'm gonna start with UI perspective. Like, do you think about on chain much? Is it a value to you?
I think punctual chain, I don't keep up on it. I haven't put a focus on it, but is that or kind of legacy relevant to you?
Speaker 1 I wouldn't say it crosses my mind much when I go if I'm collecting art. Not really. Yeah. I get it, and I do I appreciate it for like say some of the early punks and other areas. I think now I kinda get it. I I get why, you know, certain people really value that direction. I just not I don't really think about it too much. You know? It wouldn't influence my collecting much, obviously, that much.
Pop I'd say I'm in a similar pay place right now. Like, I'm thinking about it more. I think, you know, I'm in my forties. Maybe that's because I'm getting older, but I do think about things. I think I've talked about this before, but, literally, my father was a poet. And, you know, I was like, oh, it should get you a website set up and everything. And now he just he just posted on, like, Google's blogging site. And, like, a decade after he's passed away, literally, I can still go there. It's one of the few things Google didn't shut down. But where if it was the domain or something, it wouldn't be there. So I think maybe I'm just getting older, and I think about it more.
Speaker 1 That's fair. I know that is the case. When things are stored in AWS, IPFS should be hopefully a bit better. But as a as a definite potential risk, I
Speaker 1 But for me, lot of the time, I'll download my images anyway as I put them in galleries or in blogs. So if it went out tomorrow, I don't think I would lose, but I would be definitely pissed. You know? Because, again, the whole point of it is that is your contract and that's pointing to that place. So
Pop Totally get that. It makes sense. Ben, you'd actually, I think, put stuff on chain if I'm not incorrect. Do you wanna speak to that at all?
Ben Yeah. So it's something I definitely think about. As somebody that, you know, has worked in IT and done some system architecture and and gone through cybersecurity attacks and and lost data and backed up data. And I actually had an incident back, I don't know, over twenty years ago when I was in college where I lost a number of photos, and I can still remember some of them were really cool. And they're totally lost to, you know, the sands of time as it were. And so that's a real concern. Right? Whether it's Bitrot, whether it's, you know, things going dark on the Internet and not being archived. I think probably all of us have had some, you know, experience with trying to go to a website, and it's no longer around. And then you're checking the Internet archive and hoping it got archived.
Or, so I do think it's a real thing. And I think I do put so I have released fully on chain pieces. And from a tech standpoint, it's really awesome. Right? Whether it's a SVG or a dithered image, you know, to understand how it's, you know, transformed in the byte code and then put on the chain, and it's really cool. However, from a very practical standpoint, there's kinda two things that I think about. On one hand, I will pay a slight premium for that. On the other hand, it definitely constrains the art, and that's always bad. Right? You can have some really cool things come out of constraints. But if you look at my on chain pieces, of which there's only, I think, maybe three, they definitely are stylistically different. Every piece that I've ever released on chain up to this point has been a vector graphic.
And the other day, I did a bidders edition for my most recent on chain piece, and I was trying to decide if I wanted to do the edition as an on chain piece. And at the end of the day, I looked at the on chain version, size limited versus the full vector version, and I just couldn't put my name behind the on chain version. It just didn't show the artistic vision and and the architectural details. And so I decided at the end of the day, I'd rather release a more complete piece off chain than do an on chain piece. Now that's not always true. Sometimes, you know, you can do something really cool because of those constraints, and you are happy with it. You look at it. You go, wow. I'm amazed I made that or did that. I would also sort of rank.
You know, I agree with Hyper. Like, AWS or you know, it's, the lowest level of hosting. Then there's IPFS, which is, you know, more like a torrent technology. It's more resilient. Then I actually prefer Arweave a little bit over IPFS for some technical reasons. So I try and mint almost everything on Arweave. And then, you know, sort of the gold standard for longevity is fully on chain. If you think Ethereum's gonna be around, then your art's gonna be around. So I do sort of rank them as an artist. But as a collector, I have to admit, I very rarely look at where somebody's storing other than it's fully on chain or it's not. I very rarely look at where they're actually storing the image or metadata. As an artist, I try and do the thing that I think is gonna be most resilient for my collectors long term.
And I guess as a collector, I just kinda hope other artists do the same.
Pop I love that, Ben. There's so much detail. It's so much more than I do. Eddie's come up. We're gonna go to him next. I have one question for you. It's very selfish. So people who meant on manifold are using Arweave, I believe. At least that is the way it's set up now. Could you speak just briefly about why, like, why you think Arweave's, like, decent? You know, like, even preferring it to I f p s?
Ben So short, nonprepared answer. Like I said, I P f s depends on almost like a torrent structure. It it depends on a group of people all keeping copies, duplicate. Arweave is essentially a pay upfront. You're paying for the storage upfront and paying for someone to host that for you know, they they say they guarantee it for two hundred years, but it just feels a little better than trusting an IPFS node not to go dark. You know? From a from a financial standpoint, if at some point IPFS, they just decide you know, a a hosting provider decides it's no longer financially viable, they could go dark. And depending on how many copies of something there are, there's more potential to lose it from my understanding of looking it's been a number of months since I've looked really done a deep dive into it.
There is simply a slightly higher potential to lose any given image on IPFS than our wave from my understanding.
Pop That is vastly more information than I knew. And so I you're like, oh, this is a couple months old. Like, a couple months old to me. That's, like, gold. I really appreciate answers like that because it's something I've been thinking about, but not thinking about hard enough to go, like, research. So I appreciate someone with your background who's looked into it kinda giving that answer. I really appreciate that, Ben.
Ben Go for it, The other the other quick thing to add is so with Arweave, I have actually stored a couple pieces specifically on Arweave myself. So when you upload a piece with Manifold, they are actually paying the Arweave storage fee for you. If you were to go to upload something onto Arweave or IPFS, you can download an IPFS client and essentially upload something for essentially no cost. On Arweave, you do actually pay a cost for every upload you do. I have a couple pieces that are simply too large, to show on marketplaces. Right? So even though I could meant a 200 megabyte piece on Manifold, it's not gonna show on Foundation or OpenSea. So one of the things I've done is minted that piece as, you know, 48 megabyte file so it'll show up properly on Foundation or OpenSea.
And then I've gone into the metadata for the details, and also link here's the full, you know, here's the full high resolution version, and here's the Arweave link for it because I feel like that's a more permanent, but I actually paid for that. You know? Maybe I paid a dollar or something to upload that in full resolution on Arweave, but I know that that's gonna be there. It's not going anywhere. So, yeah, when you mount through Manifold, they do use Arweave, but they're actually paying an upfront cost. You just aren't seeing it.
Pop I I love that. It's so fascinating. I really appreciate it. Eddie, glad to have you here. Appreciate you coming out to speak. Love your art, collecting in the past. And I know you're one of those people who also collects very actively in support community. Love do you have any questions or comments?
Speaker 2 Yes. Hi, Pop. Hi, Pop. Hi, Cleat. I respect, Ben. It's nice to be in the space and hear all the knowledge you guys are sharing with everybody. I had a question on whether you, as an artist and a collector, if you collect on different blockchains such as Ada, Tezos, Bitcoin, if you collect on different blockchains and if you have created on blockchains.
Speaker 1 K. I'll take first. I I'm a Eastmax, so I've only minted on ETH. And I'd say most of my art on ETH, but I do have a large Tezos collection. I've never bought on Sol, Ada, any of the others. Too many wallets to manage. It's just a headache. You know? I'm happy with ETH, Tez. That's enough.
Ben So from my standpoint, I I am an eat maxi from sort of an investment standpoint. I believe in the technology, and I could I could argue why. The first mover advantage in network effects and all sorts of different things, But that's a technology standpoint from an art standpoint. So I do own pieces on Ethereum, Bitcoin, Solana, and Tezos. Solana, I had friends that released there. I wanted to support my friends, so I bought some of their pieces. Tezos, I love the technology. I'm not as sure about the longevity of the chain as Ethereum, for instance. I don't think that's that hot of the take. In terms of, so that's buying where I bought ARB, but the vast majority of it's on Ethereum, probably secondary, Tezos, and then I have a little bit here and there, Solana and, Bitcoin.
In terms of minting ART, I have minted the vast majority of my work on Ethereum. I have done some more experimental work on Tezos, more of my abstract or conceptual stuff just because it's cheaper. Cheaper, it provided a cheaper price point. You know, with my, pieces on ETH are going for point one or more, you know, on Tezos, I don't feel bad dropping something a little more experimental for $20 USD or thing. I have also done a few early ordinals. I I inscribed three of them back in February when it was very new, sort of sub 80,000, you know, and they're at over a million or so now, some number of millions. But that was more of a wanting to understand the technology thing than, I believe this is the future of Bitcoin sort of thing. Never done anything on Solana.
And then I think I have a few pieces that I that I bought on, Canto, and that was interesting for a little while there. Spent $20 and bought a few pieces just to understand the technology. So, kinda with Hyper, most of my stuff's on Ethereum. Once in a while, I'll play around with something else if I think there's a good reason for it. And then on the buying side, vast majority is on Ethereum, but I'll buy a piece on something else if it supports a friend, or I just think it's particularly interesting.
Speaker 2 Okay. Thank you so much for answering because I wanted to know the crowd here. I didn't wanna come up and start talking about Tezos or, like, asking you about something that that you did not have a lot of knowledge on.
Speaker 1 See, for me, I buy like, so something like Tez is very good for Glitchart, and I found a lot of very good, what do you call it, collage work there. You know? So, yeah, it depends. Like, photography, I would be mainly East. So it it sometimes depends on where the community is, I would say.
Pop Hey. That was an awesome question. I wouldn't have thought to ask that. That was really good.
Speaker 2 Did you have anything else, Eddie? Any other questions? No. I just wanted to kinda know some aspects from their collector and minting because, you know, I do both myself. I just love collecting on TES. I just think it's fun, but I also collect on ETH as well and have collected in different blockchains and supported people on ordinals. You know, they were like, hey. We're making an ordinal, and it's a free man. I'm like, cool. I got $35. I'll throw it at it and have an ordinal in the collection. But I just kinda wanted to get some more feedback from these guys because it's just been a really good space pop, and Clete is always so quiet in the space. We gotta hear more Clete.
Pop I try, Eddie. I push it. I'm not I push for sure. I love Clete's questions. I love to hear from her. I am Cleat, I'm gonna kick it to you for I think what we're gonna do is it looks like we have one, request from Mahin. I'm gonna add her. And maybe we'll have questions from you, and then we will start to wrap up. Because I'm conscious when I do these invites. I rarely say how long we're going, and the so we will try to wrap up in the next fifteen minutes. So, Clayton, any questions from you? Love to hear them.
Speaker 6 You know, I always think, like, I'm speaking too much and people are getting bored of me. I should speak less. So that's kinda interesting to hear, Eddie. Thank you, though. I have one last question and, like, just out of curiosity and for fun's sake. It's a tough one, though. I like, you know, hard questions, you know, pop. Do you have a favorite artwork in your collection of collected pieces that holds a special place in your creative journey? Then please go ahead, and then I can hear from Hyper.
Speaker 1 In terms of collect collected?
Speaker 1 Or collected? Oh, I would say no. I I would say that I have many special pieces, not individual. You know? And and, again, a lot of them are you know, I have expensive, but they don't actually vibe as much as, say, personal connections, people I've met, people I've went out, you know, you know, met up in real life and I think they are mean more to me anyway. So each each person like, again, my gallery is a good way to see it because these, like, the moments where I met different people along this journey and I think all of them are special in their own way, you know. So it's not like I have one mega inspiration other than my punk. Punk's a classic. But as far as other art, you know, again, it's more related to how I've connected with people, I think.
Speaker 6 You know, I thought your punk would be the first answer and it would be easier for you to answer that, but I love your attitude on that. You know? It's it's really
Speaker 1 Punk's my only punk doesn't have a price. Everything else, so I'm maybe
Speaker 1 gonna say I'm not in a rush, but, yeah, punk's special.
Ben Yeah. I'm gonna punt on this one. So I probably have 1,500 pieces. And if we went through them, I could certainly tell you the story behind most of them. But picking out one, I would have a very, very hard time. There's probably more that I can tell you. Like, that was that was a stupid buy. I don't know why I did that. It was in the middle of the bulb and the opposite, you know, in terms of having strong feelings. There's just so many good artists and good pieces out there. I can think of a few off the top of my head. I mean, one time, I I was chatting with Zancan. He had done a release. Things didn't go exactly perfectly, and he sent me a piece of his after we had a discussion about it.
There are some special pieces like that, more related to the artist oftentimes and the interaction I had with them before acquiring the piece. I will say the one, NFT that I will not sell, I both created it, and I collected it. It's my PFP. I'm probably not gonna sell that one anytime soon.
Speaker 6 Sorry. Please go ahead, pop. I just wanted to think about it.
Pop No. I was just saying offering coming on Ben's his grail, his image. I was just joking. Go ahead, Khalid.
Speaker 6 I really wasn't looking for an individual you name an individual piece because it is it is super hard. I I mean, I'm I refer myself as a part time collector. I only collect when I can. And even I don't think I can pick one out of them, and my collected pieces should be, like, one third of yours or maybe one fifth more like it. So thank you so much. And we have Mahin. Hi, Mahin. Welcome.
Speaker 5 Hey, GM. GM, Paul, Plead. Great space once again. I was just listening. And Hyper and Ben Meadows, like, this is the first time, I think, I'm interacting with you. But you shared great insights, that brings me to my question. That is I mean, I know, like, most of us, even as artists and collectors, we have our like, the genres that we like, be it photography, three d art, or illustration, AI, or whatever. Right? So I just wanna ask, like, do you, as collectors, have a genre that you like to collect from? And because, like, I was just checking Ben's collection, and he likes that, like, photography, different even within the photography, you have a different this is this very selective vibe that you collect from. So, like, do you have a genre that you kind of, like, prefer collecting?
And then if so, then, like, how does it, like you know, what what does it do for other artists who are doing different things? Like, should I mean, obviously, we stay stay true to what we do, but, like Do we like, like, know, as collectors like to collect specific genres? What would you advise us to do? I don't know if I'm, for are you phrasing it right? Because, like, it's a very complicated question, but I hope you get it.
Ben Yeah. I I think I understand the question. So, you're right. There is certain styles of photography that you know, maybe I appreciate lots of them, but what I wanna own, may be a smaller subset of that. And for instance, I can think of so genres that I'm just not as comfortable collecting would be music. I have a few music NFTs, but I don't have a lot of them. Three d art is similarly difficult for me. You know, there are three d artists that I can think of that I think do incredible work, but the vast majority of them, it just doesn't doesn't do it for me. And I'm and I wouldn't I might appreciate the piece, but I wouldn't pull the trigger and spend the money on the piece.
So I do think that's true, that there are just simply things that whether it's because I'm more familiar or comfortable with the genre of art, whether it's because of my background and history, or it just speaks to me, I think that's true of all collectors. Right? Everybody's got things they like. You you think about people and music. Right? We don't all have the same taste in music, and that's okay. And so I think my advice as a collector to an artist, taking off my artist hat for a minute, would be do not change your art style, and do not make art just because you hope people will buy it just for a particular subset of the community. Do you, you know, do your creative vision, express you, not what you think people want to see? And, you know, that's why I create art.
It's not for financial success. If that comes, that's great. I do think that the world's a big enough place that if you do it long enough and well enough and consistently enough, you will find success. But I think that's putting the cart before the horse. Make make the best art that you can that's true to you, is is kind of my advice to other artists. That's what I do. And you will find your right collecting niche. Don't try and sell to a particular collector. So
Pop It's a lot of that, Ben. High perspective, any thoughts?
Speaker 1 I would agree very much with what Ben's saying. People just stay true to their self and, you know, again, if if paths cross, they cross. You know? I think if you try and push it too much, you you you'll end up being self frustrated because you're not really representing yourself. You know, you'll be frustrated. Again, that's why I say now, like, don't play in the market. You know, you it will just drive you insane. You know, just do do what you do. I think as far as collecting styles, you know, even within styles, let's say, you know, I've got, say, lot of photography, collection, but even within photography, the same genres I I enjoy more than others. You know, I do like black and white very much, you know, street type photography. But landscapes, really I struggle with. It just doesn't vibe with me.
So even within certain medium again, it depends on what the art is, not not the medium per se, if you get what I mean.
Pop Love that. Appreciate you, Mahe. Ben, we will go to you, and then we will start to wrap up. We'll go to Clete, and then we'll go to, all our speakers, with some final thoughts. Ben, love to hear from you on this.
Ben Something I thought about while while while Hyper was speaking was people change. Right? I'm sure if you look at my collection and you go from oldest to newest collected, you will see some changes there. Right? Some growth, some changes. So I think people change. Right? If you look at the art I'm going to collect over the course of my life, it's going to be different. If you look at music I listen to over a sixty year span, there will be differences in time period. So I think individual people change, right, their preferences, what they like, their collecting style, what they're willing to spend money on. And then I think culture and movements change. Different things will be in style at different times. We probably all remember the sort of Instagram photography style of five or ten years ago.
So I also think, you know, if you kinda wait long enough, things will cycle back around, on a macro level. So I also think there is this aspect of as human beings and as cultures, the thing that we're most consistent about is being inconsistent. We will change. So there's also that aspect.
Speaker 5 That's very well said. I was saying the same thing. Like, as artists, we have growth and journey. The same goes for collectors as well. Like, a lot of collectors came in, and now they have a better understanding of art. And, like, that's that's the journey. Right? And then they see and they learn. I mean, we all are learning at the same point. Right? And our art is improving as well. And same goes for the collectors. So thank you so much for your answers.
Pop Thank you, Maheen. Thank you. I really appreciate people who come up and speak. I know lots of people can't, and obviously, we're time pressed already, but you both ask great questions and very much appreciate you. I'm gonna go ahead and let's wrap it up. It's been an honor to have you both on. You do a ton for this space, both our as artists and collectors. You've shared so much knowledge. I personally enjoy the time. I wanna shout out also all the people who who have taken the time to listen. It's literally, like, so many people that I love out there and get to spend time with in this space. I can't shout everyone out, but really appreciate so many people coming and listening today. And with that, I think we'll kick it over to Cleat first for wrap up, and then we'll do hyperspect, Ben, and then I'll do kind of a final sign off.
But, Cleat, I forget everything that is going on, but I do remember the archer thread. This week, we had that kind of thing pieces you've collected theme, which was really cool. I so enjoyed reading the thread. But anything else you have as well?
Speaker 6 I mean, I don't know how long we've been doing these spaces. And every time I say, okay. I reached the limit of fun and quality time this time, it won't get any better than this. Yet every week, it does get better than that. So thank you for coming and making this past one and a half an hour a wonderful one by sharing your art and vision, Ben and Hyper. I do hope we do this again in the future. I really enjoyed it. And, of course, every time I thank Pop and Fur, thank you so much as well as as well, my dear friends. Like, this won't be the same without you and all the amazing people and artists in the listener panel who create time to be here instead of something else. Time is seriously the most valuable thing, and I appreciate you for sharing it with us.
And, as usual, please take your time to check the spotlight threads for the week. This is a special one, really. All are collected pieces and shared by their collectors, and I so enjoyed writing this one. Have a happy rest of the week, and see you all soon.
Pop Love that, Clay. I enjoy all of them. This one was particularly a good thread. I know it's easy. You know, there's lots of interaction and sharing in the you know, when there are our chairs. But, of course, it would be awesome if people can, yeah, can participate more and enjoy, like, the curated threads that you do because they're really cool and you put a lot of time into them. And I'm not saying they're appreciated. They get, you know, 100 plus likes. But, definitely, if you come across one of them, take the time to look at them because they're really cool. HyperSpec, I'm so sad. And I think we discussed it, and I don't know if you're going to New York this year. You are?
Speaker 1 Yeah. I think so. I've seen other people
Pop go that, and I'm not gonna be there. It's like, literally, my wife scheduled travel over it, and I hadn't blocked it off. And so, you know, we had such a fun time there, and I so enjoyed it. I'm hoping to get to some other event.
Speaker 1 Yeah. Well, maybe I'm gonna see if I can make it to Miami in December for Basel. And and then oh, did you see my punk my punk and friends got into the Beeple punk event in Charleston? So I think I'll I'll try and make my way there if I can. But now I'm sure our paths will cross again, but but undoubtedly, inevitable. And in time, it was really good catching up today. You know, if you think, you know, we spent many hours vibing in New York, catching with Farr, everybody. You know, it's really good just to really touch base, like, you know, a few months after and just catch up, see how everybody's getting on. You know? And it's been good to see, you know, Farrah with the art packs. I know she's been working day and night, and I know you got some.
I got some. You know, I hope it's successful again. Every you know, she really tried to do something good, you know, bring art to the, you know, broader set of people. You know? So I really think it's a good thing. And I think it's well, pop, your collection. You know, you've had a couple of good collections recently and, you know, again, hope hopefully, everything keeps going well for you and everybody else. So, no, it's been great. Really happy to participate.
Pop I appreciate you. I appreciate you collect from so many people. I appreciate you collected from me. You collected from so many people, and you create really cool art too. I was actually gonna lead with, if you check out hi. Obviously, you know, great to follow. High perspective. You check out his good morning message, Hank and Friends, which we didn't get to go into a ton, but it's really cool. Glitch chart, story based. You know, it has a story to me for sure. I mean, most art has some narrative, but yours has a clear narrative. It's gonna be at Beeple Studio for the CryptoPunks meetup, which I think is absolutely awesome. I wanted to make sure I left time. If you high perspective, do you have anything else you wanna talk about? But, again, it was awesome to get to catch up.
Speaker 1 No. All good, pop. All good.
Pop Yeah. Well, appreciate you.
Pop Same. Ben, this has been awesome. Amazed you don't have your own spaces, probably because you are too busy. But you you articulate things so well, and you break them down, and you're also super knowledgeable. So I'm very appreciative. I love when you talk about kind of in the moment topics that aren't necessarily in the moment, but they're they have come to the moment because you always think about them in a really thoughtful way. And so I, you know, encourage everyone to follow you for, of course, the art and, you know, keep up what you're doing, but you also have very reasonable takes when there's kind of hot takes in this space. I feel like you articulate, you know, your thoughts on it really well. So I really appreciate you taking the time today. I'd love to hear about, you know, anything you wanna talk about or working with, but thanks again.
Ben Yeah. Pop and Cleat, thank you guys for, having me. This has been really fun, Hyper. It's been really fun being on stage with you, learning more about you. Hopefully, our paths will cross in the future. Thank you for everybody that, listened, for the last hour and a half. And then I just wanted to say, in general, I am very grateful, for the people in the web three space, other artists and collectors. It it's such a warm and encouraging space, and global space compared to even in the midst of this bear market, compared to sort of the traditional art world. And if I was just trying to get eyes on my art, it would be so much more difficult, without the web three spacing community. So just wanted to express my gratitude both as a collector and an artist and say, yeah. This has been really fun. And, yeah, let's do it again sometime.
Pop Well, that was really well put from both of The only thing I will add to the end is thanks to everybody who listened. Oftentimes, I call out early, but I was struggling to get pins up and other things and talk to Khleid about how I want music, but we'll probably will never add music in. So we'll see. Maybe maybe in the future. But, really, big thanks to Ben and Hyperspec. It's been awesome. Perkleet, kind of really driving a lot of this behind the scenes. We're lying we have additional guests lined up next week. We're excited to have Rocket Girl on, does amazing AI art, and it's also know, has, you know, decade plus in marketing. And so we're gonna talk about her art, and we're also gonna talk about marketing in a bear market and not even necessarily you need to put a focus on it.
I was in a chat, and Doc T, who appreciate you being out there, Doc T, you know, mentioned it's not all about, like, you can choose where to put your emphasis on. It doesn't mean, like, we all have to be like, well, I need you know, I'm not selling. Therefore, I need to put even more into marketing. I don't think that's necessarily true, and Doc T articulated it as much better than me. It might be a time to experiment with art and, you know, just focus on your art or other things. Like, I'm not saying marketing is the end all, be all, but I think it's good to have an understanding of marketing in general, whether it's to put a focus on it now or in the future. So we're very excited to have Rocket Girl.
If they Rocker Girl is not on the West Coast Of The US, so we'll be doing our normal time, which is 10AM ET next week on Thursday. But thanks again to Ben. Thanks again to Hyperspect. It's awesome to catch up to you. Of course, thanks to Clayton Fair. Very much appreciate them. Eddie and Maheen coming up and speaking. Everybody out in the audience, very much appreciate it. I love this space. I love hearing from collectors. You're also great, so it was special to me. Really enjoyed it. And we will see you all out on Twitter and other places, and we'll hopefully see you all next week. Have a good one.